2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby gradyandrew » May 15, 2019, 12:36 pm

Mitch
Barret
Smith
Knox
Kornet/Von/Dot/Another draft pick

Ild play the youth..Is that a blatant tank???

Is it closer to a lottery team or a playoff squad??

Im thinking sub 30 wins..Not sure if you consider that intentional tanking.

Whats your thought at playing the youngins??


I actually am thinking along the same lines. Though, I'd expand your list to include Lance, Trier and Frank (and take off Kornet!)

This is shaping up to be a hangover off season like 2016 and 2010 (summers of LBJ and KD if my counting is off). Especially if KD, Kawhi, Kyrie, Kemba, and Butler switch teams. Tobias Harris and Khris Middleton are not good value at the max, but will likely get paid that way. LAL, LAC and Nets have max space and rosters ready to win now. Knicks roster is too young and unproven but it does have potential.
To me the best play is using our space like Sean Marks and the Nets did to help teams lessen their tax or open up space for their own FA in exchange for future picks. While Carrol was massively overpayed, he did change the culture in BKLYN buy always playing hard.

The biggest caveat is this. If Milwaukee beats Kawhi and the Raptors and then GSW and KD, we're the only team that could sign both of them. Those two only care about winning.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Red » May 15, 2019, 12:56 pm

Just sayin there's a lot of layers here. There's the do you tank although the worse teams with the best odds didn't win out in the past?

There's the assumption that RJ Barrett will be both available and chosen by the Knicks.

Comparing tank strategy and odds although they weren't the same as in the past.

So you have whether or not tanking works? Is it worth the risk? Is there any risk? What's a losing team? What's a winning team? What's a win or loss in lottery standings and can that be quantified during the season? Are there any negative ramifications from losing (sometimes on purpose)?

Being the worse team- did we win at 3 or get lucky we weren't #4 or 5? Lots of ways to view this.

This isn't just about playing the odds as it seems. It's about timing, luck, talent evaluation and roster building plus more. In my simple way I've chosen to rate tanking on the outcome of the 1st or 2nd draft pick viewing Zion or Ja as worth the risk.

But now if you say a perennial losing team has no risk in losing on purpose in pursuit of higher draft picks then my next question is do you believe higher draft picks equate to higher talent? If so then thats the risk. Perhaps we should just check out and come back after we lose on purpose and actually get the top pick. Then we can win on purpose.

Lots of projections etc..

No way of knowing without setting the standard forst.first. my standard was zion ja or bust not please no number 4 or 5 picks.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby taowave » May 15, 2019, 12:59 pm

My list was only for potential starters.
Your guys are my guys too...

Kornet was there as I don't think we will pay up for Von,and we dont have a 4..could have gone small with Dot/Barret at the 3..

I can take another year of psin watching the young his develop
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby taowave » May 15, 2019, 1:03 pm

Red,I dont think Ja is out of the equation. I haven't followed RJ,but a lot of guys(execs) feel he is a boafide stud..
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 15, 2019, 1:23 pm

taowave wrote:Red,I dont think Ja is out of the equation. I haven't followed RJ,but a lot of guys(execs) feel he is a boafide stud..



i would guess that the majority of people who followed college basketball all year on this board would rank RJ over Ja. Some would find it downright crazy to see someone's "im happy with" list sit at just Zion and Ja and ignore RJ. Yes, Ja had some great games and some great triple doubles and has great assist numbers... RJ also scored 30+ points in 6 games and shot above .500 from the floor in 5 of them. He shot over .500 against Virginia twice, dropping 30 on their heads the first time and 26 the next. He had 9 games with double digit rebis. His strength of schedule tears Ja's to shreds. And youre comparing a freshman to a sophomore. WHO WAS JA MORANT AS A FRESHMAN. WHO!? Please someone give me a fantasy machine to send RJ Barrett to Murray state to play as a sophomore in the fucking OHIO VALLEY CONFERENCE and report back to how he looks.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Red » May 15, 2019, 2:18 pm

Zion is LeBron + 30lbs

Ja Morant is Russell Westbrook

RJ is Demar Derozan.

And the ceiling is the roof. Lol


I don't really like Derozan.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 15, 2019, 2:29 pm

Red wrote:Zion is LeBron + 30lbs

Ja Morant is Russell Westbrook

RJ is Demar Derozan.

And the ceiling is the roof. Lol


I don't really like Derozan.


RJ's game and Derozan's game are nothing alike.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby Red » May 15, 2019, 2:42 pm

Not exact but they have similar build and RJ was a fan of Derozan growing up so I'm assuming he's influenced his game.

After some research I'll support RJ at 3 and my 6th sense tells me Fizz will take him or JA at 3 no need to consider anyone else at this time.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby knicksH20 » May 15, 2019, 3:29 pm

Red wrote:Not exact but they have similar build and RJ was a fan of Derozan growing up so I'm assuming he's influenced his game.

After some research I'll support RJ at 3 and my 6th sense tells me Fizz will take him or JA at 3 no need to consider anyone else at this time.


I'm a huge fan of Michael Jordan and he has definitely influenced my game.

Point: who you admire and body similarities have nothing to do with their games.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby CommonSense » May 15, 2019, 9:03 pm

Red, I’m wondering what your plan would be to build a title contender? Like specifics, besides “win as many games as you can”...Looking at our roster from this year(pre or post KP trade), how do you make that team a champion?
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby gradyandrew » May 15, 2019, 9:08 pm

CommonSense wrote:Red, I’m wondering what your plan would be to build a title contender? Like specifics, besides “win as many games as you can”...Looking at our roster from this year(pre or post KP trade), how do you make that team a champion?


Take it to the extreme and go like the Doc Rivers GMed Clips and use draft picks as assets for trades.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 16, 2019, 10:01 am

red, do you care to comment on how the lakers and the pelicans upped their draft positions by resting two of the league's best players once they realized they werent going to make the playoffs? SUPERSTAR players.

how many games did AD play in the 2nd half of the season? How many games did he play on some phony minutes restriction?

Lebron shutting it down because why bother if youre not going to make the playoffs?

were they not rewarded for tanking?
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby taowave » May 16, 2019, 10:16 am

What Red doesnt realize is since 2001,we have been that 30 win team with the exception of the Melo/Woodson 54 win squad...and we know how he feels about that squad :drunk: ..He is correct that the new format increases the odds of the 30+ win squad,but in no way does it level the playing field.

Its really kind of silly to argue that its better to win 30 plus games because Memphis,NO and the Lakers defied the odds....

And lets be honest..there are very few markets in the NBA where you can tank and reap the benefits and still have a shot at the major free agents...New York and the L.A. happen to be two of them
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby H20Knick » May 16, 2019, 10:19 am

taowave wrote:What Red doesnt realize is since 2001,we have been that 30 win team with the exception of the Melo/Woodson 54 win squad...and we know how he feels about that squad :drunk:

Its really kind of silly to argue that its better to win 30 plus games because Memphis,NO and the Lakers defied the odds....

And lets be honest..there are very few markets in the NBA where you can tank and reap the benefits and still have a shot at the major free agents...New York and the L.A. happen to be two of them


i like Red, but I really do imagine him as this crotchety old man on a rocking chair doing his best perpetual scrooge impression. In my mind he coached some high school sport 20 years ago and cant stop talking about how you gotta leave it alll on the court/field and that there IS NO TOMORROW.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby StevoStarks » May 16, 2019, 2:07 pm

Hahaha, you’ve got a tough crowd Red. I have to agree with them.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby big_j_NY » May 16, 2019, 2:17 pm

H20Knick wrote:i like Red, but I really do imagine him as this crotchety old man on a rocking chair doing his best perpetual scrooge impression. In my mind he coached some high school sport 20 years ago and cant stop talking about how you gotta leave it alll on the court/field and that there IS NO TOMORROW.


With the way some other ppl besides Red has been bitching about the tank process this season, you can associate this quote for damn near 50% of the active members of this site as well.

That 50% and their god damn "PLEASE TRADE EVERYTHING FOR A RENTAL ANTHONY DAVIS NOW" schemes
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby thewatcher » May 16, 2019, 2:38 pm

Actually Red is 100 percent right. We got lucky, ask the fans of Cleveland Phoenix, Chicago and Atlanta. The new antitanking rules are decisive.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby taowave » May 16, 2019, 2:48 pm

Watcher,you should know better...Red is not right

This selection process was a statistical outlier,not the norm.

How lucky did we get?? Look at the odds/probability pre selection. We actually wound up close to the most likely spot.


Red is only right that tanking is not richly rewarded,but don't confuse a 150-1 shot hitting as the new norm...

If you ask me,once 4th was announced we became the prohibitive favorite mathematically,and we crapped out at 3






thewatcher wrote:Actually Red is 100 percent right. We got lucky, ask the fans of Cleveland Phoenix, Chicago and Atlanta. The new antitanking rules are decisive.
Last edited by taowave on May 16, 2019, 2:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby thewatcher » May 16, 2019, 2:51 pm

We were lucky compared to the teams I mentioned. Tanking took a big hit from the rule changes.
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Re: 2018-2019 Tank er, Rebuild

Postby taowave » May 16, 2019, 2:58 pm

Oh,that's for dam sure,but that was H20 counter to Red..




thewatcher wrote:We were lucky compared to the teams I mentioned. Tanking took a big hit from the rule changes.
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