[Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby nazrmohamed » January 24, 2018, 3:04 pm

I watched KP for 2 yrs before he was drafted. I never get credit for it but the year before he was drafted when we didn't have a 1st rounder his name was on draft sites as a high second rounder who had future lotto potential and I thought we should draft him. I still think second rounders should be used for draft and stash euros btw. But point is I spent alot of time watching him.

Here's the story. He was not a role player on his team. Draft videos show him playing right next to Willy, and they're dumpling the ball into the post, he's moving off the ball. Basically doing everything he does now and actually more because he's having his way with other slender euro bigs.

Here's the difference. His team sucked and just want at the level of competition as Doncics team, so you're right about Doncic but I see you building your case there H20 that he's a roll player. Nice try. Nah, KP always had this roll. How effective at it he is can be the argument you can make.

As for Doncic vs KP there is one worry. KP might be frail, he might not know how to put it all together but physically he's a freak of nature whose athletic. Ayton is too. You just can't say that about Doncic, whose more smart, a good shooter, leader, great court vision
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby H20Knick » January 24, 2018, 3:16 pm

hey man, all im saying is 11 and 5 on a shitty team is not 16/6/5 on the number 1 team in the league.

and who is KP more athletic than at his position. He's athletic for someone who is 7'3, but who cares? I don't need someone who is 7'3. If KP were actually athletic for an nba big, you wouldn't be pining for Ayton. Now, I get it, Luka isn't quick or jump out the gym worthy, and maybe that's reason not to draft him. I dont want to be wrong here. I like Bagley and I like MPJ and I like Ayton. I couldn't pass on Luka if we had the chance because I just think he'll find a way to get it done and he has the mindset of an alpha and a leader and a winner and he's DOING IT, not just talking it. I like that a lot. But give me a top 4 pick and really, Im fine.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby nazrmohamed » January 24, 2018, 5:03 pm

C'mon dude. You take things too far. You go from saying you just want to help hold him accountable to making it seem like he has zero desirable skills. You simply don't average what he does and get sent to the all-star game being a scrub.

He's very athletic. Go look at any highlight video and dude is catching major air. His blocked shots alone show his athleticism.

Cue blocks are about help defense

They could be but I've seen plenty of on ball blocks. I watched him block shots off iso defense, block Westbrook while back peddling. I saw him block Aldridge while being backed down in the post and sure, plenty of help blocks but to say he only waits around for help blocks is very inaccurate. I've seen Frank throw him an alleyoop where he caught it about 2 ft over the rim. So the guy is athletic.

But here's the deal. He's not strong just yet and he has no pg that creates easy opportunities. Why do I bring up these two point? Right now the truth is most bigs aren't destroying the paint. It's literally a lie. Llamarcuz Aldridge, the pelican duo, Memphis duo, and pretty much that's about it. What everyone else is doing is literally setting picks for some All-star caliber of point guard who then in turn passes it back to them for a dunk. There are allstar bigs that that is almost an entirety of thier offense and then everyone tasks about all these skills KP lacks. There your efficiency right there. I'd argue KP plays outta the post more than most people give him credit for. Put it this way, EVERY SINGLE turn around jumper is a post up. Now if you wanna say he doesn't get great position under the rim then that's where the strength comes in and why most of those shots take place around the foul line. But he's taking shots from that platform and with better strength and behaviors he will get more efficient there. I know you send a lot of time on stats but often it's about how these found series of stats prove he isn't a certain type of player but you just stop there and suggest we need to find that player rather than identify what he can do, what we can do. I'm invested in KP so I spend more time there. How do you extend that first month, what was he doing, what was his competition doing, have they adapted or has he changed. What was our PG play like then vs now, what are we doing around KP now.

And you're wrong. Me wanting Ayton has nothing to do with a lack of faith in KP and more my own version of Maxs except with bigs. I think a 2 7fters can work. I think in fact we can stand out and set the market. I understand it can't be in an old 90s traditional way but I still see value in it. KP has range, Ayton has a developing range and I would love to put them together, or Bamba or Jackson.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby spree#8 » January 24, 2018, 6:43 pm

Congrats to KP!
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby H20Knick » January 24, 2018, 6:53 pm

nazrmohamed wrote:C'mon dude. You take things too far. You go from saying you just want to help hold him accountable to making it seem like he has zero desirable skills. You simply don't average what he does and get sent to the all-star game being a scrub.

He's very athletic. Go look at any highlight video and dude is catching major air. His blocked shots alone show his athleticism.

Cue blocks are about help defense

They could be but I've seen plenty of on ball blocks. I watched him block shots off iso defense, block Westbrook while back peddling. I saw him block Aldridge while being backed down in the post and sure, plenty of help blocks but to say he only waits around for help blocks is very inaccurate. I've seen Frank throw him an alleyoop where he caught it about 2 ft over the rim. So the guy is athletic.

But here's the deal. He's not strong just yet and he has no pg that creates easy opportunities. Why do I bring up these two point? Right now the truth is most bigs aren't destroying the paint. It's literally a lie. Llamarcuz Aldridge, the pelican duo, Memphis duo, and pretty much that's about it. What everyone else is doing is literally setting picks for some All-star caliber of point guard who then in turn passes it back to them for a dunk. There are allstar bigs that that is almost an entirety of thier offense and then everyone tasks about all these skills KP lacks. There your efficiency right there. I'd argue KP plays outta the post more than most people give him credit for. Put it this way, EVERY SINGLE turn around jumper is a post up. Now if you wanna say he doesn't get great position under the rim then that's where the strength comes in and why most of those shots take place around the foul line. But he's taking shots from that platform and with better strength and behaviors he will get more efficient there. I know you send a lot of time on stats but often it's about how these found series of stats prove he isn't a certain type of player but you just stop there and suggest we need to find that player rather than identify what he can do, what we can do. I'm invested in KP so I spend more time there. How do you extend that first month, what was he doing, what was his competition doing, have they adapted or has he changed. What was our PG play like then vs now, what are we doing around KP now.

And you're wrong. Me wanting Ayton has nothing to do with a lack of faith in KP and more my own version of Maxs except with bigs. I think a 2 7fters can work. I think in fact we can stand out and set the market. I understand it can't be in an old 90s traditional way but I still see value in it. KP has range, Ayton has a developing range and I would love to put them together, or Bamba or Jackson.


In a world of hypotheticals where Wall/Paul/Westbrook/Irving walk in that door, your points would be relevant. But that point guard isn't here. The knicks picked their future franchise point guard and he's here to play defense, pass the ball around the perimeter like he's done his whole life, and make the 3. Now, we view athleticism differently. I think of it as "if my guy is lined up against your guy, can my guy get past your guy". If im thinking about the top 3rd of starting NBA 4s, I don't know many that KP is going to beat down court, or where his first step is quick enough to blow by them. So if you have a speed advantage, do you have a strength advantage? No.

What can we do to make KP better? We can make him the 2nd best player on the team to an elite wing. It's really that simple and it always has been. It's the same fate that got Love and Bosh championships and might have gotten Amare one if Mike D'antoni wasn't Pop's *****.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 24, 2018, 7:08 pm

There is no reason KP can't develop into a modern day Dirk..

It would be nice if he worked off season with Dirk or Hakeem..

KP literally has no go to move,nor does he have any clue what to do in an iso situation..
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby nazrmohamed » January 24, 2018, 7:29 pm

Oh ok. I get you now. I was defining athleticism as upward explosion. What you described I call mobility. Tyson Chandler was athletic and Draymond Green is mobile. And in reality, Draymond is both. But I feel you and you are pretty much on point. Well I believe he's pretty mobile for his size but you covered that already.

Now just so you know, the answer isn't always move him to C and find a modern 4. The Grizzlies had great defense and Zach was as Athletic/Mobile as a trash can. But Gasol is an elite defender.
See you can also focus on ground covered. There are all sorts of partial zones being utilized around the league. You could always get a defensive minded C, keep KP at PF and is KP gonna chase down every stretch 4? Well I doubt Lamarcus Aldridge does so what are the Spurs doing? I actually don't know the answer but they gotta be running some sort of roam prevent defense from his position. You tell me how they hide him, how the Grizz hid Zack.

But listen. I think it gets overblown anyway. On mist nights the guy listed at PF for the other team scores less than KP and many nights I can say that for the other teams big man crew. I get that's not how things work in the nba but it's a start. Knicks coaching needs to scheme it out too. But I think KPs defense is adequate for someone who has his level of offensive responsibly and on a defensively challenged team. To me from your best player you allow a defensive break once in a while, ask him to give effort and hope you get some statement blocks, steals. And then you have defenders all around. There are some good SF options within our current range though.


KP needs to fucking rebound though. That shit is crazy right now.



Disclaimer- I'm not against KP at the 5 if a 4 is a stud though. Just don't get me some 7 board/3 point chucker cuz it probably won't work.
Last edited by nazrmohamed on January 24, 2018, 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby StevoStarks » January 24, 2018, 7:30 pm

taowave wrote:There is no reason KP can't develop into a modern day Dirk..

It would be nice if he worked off season with Dirk or Hakeem..

KP literally has no go to move,nor does he have any clue what to do in an iso situation..


The move he was showing against the Lakers, the turn around jump shot over Julius Randle was butter all day. He stopped doing it and went to the 3, but his little elbow turnaround jumper was unguardable and he was swishing it in the first half.

So he definitely has a move, he just doesn't use it enough.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby nazrmohamed » January 24, 2018, 7:52 pm

Man I swear, dude was a god in the first two months. Idk what the hell happened but there was not a single aspect of basketball that he's wasn't excelling at. I refuse to believe he just forgot it and in reality he hasn't lost it. He's scoring in every way. But its true he gets less and less efficient as the year goes. Dudes gotta get it together.

I'm just concerned about the rebounds. Gotta get that ball
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 24, 2018, 8:18 pm

Opposing teams adjusted..
People underestimate how hard it is to be the man,when opposing coaches are focusing on stopping you..



nazrmohamed wrote:Man I swear, dude was a god in the first two months. Idk what the hell happened but there was not a single aspect of basketball that he's wasn't excelling at. I refuse to believe he just forgot it and in reality he hasn't lost it. He's scoring in every way. But its true he gets less and less efficient as the year goes. Dudes gotta get it together.

I'm just concerned about the rebounds. Gotta get that ball
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby Geolink » January 24, 2018, 9:43 pm

Great convo ITT.

Do you guys think it’s his elbow getting worse? Remember how that story got out and KP’s performances started, for lack of a better word, declining a bit?
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby NewlyKnicked » January 25, 2018, 6:46 am

StevoStarks wrote:The move he was showing against the Lakers, the turn around jump shot over Julius Randle was butter all day. He stopped doing it and went to the 3, but his little elbow turnaround jumper was unguardable and he was swishing it in the first half.

So he definitely has a move, he just doesn't use it enough.

Isn't that the move he can only do (or mostly do) on his right (or his left, can't remember which one)? Would be 10times more efficient if he could do it turning around either side
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby Don Che » January 25, 2018, 12:10 pm

funny that he has a bad elbow and flops/falls on it all day...just gain weight and post up already the game is so much easier

i really dont understand how he hasnt looked at kareem highlights
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby dcapodic » January 25, 2018, 7:43 pm

https://clutchpoints.com/knicks-news-walt-frazier-criticizes-kristaps-porzingis-for-not-playing-vs-warriors/

Clyde has a great point about this. Also, not sure if you all have been hearing this but it has been mentioned several places that KP actually practiced at full speed with the team the day of the Warriors game and even stayed after practice for extra shooting work. Basically, it just seems like they gave him a day off.

If that is the case, then Clyde is 100% right about his criticism.
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby NewlyKnicked » January 26, 2018, 5:14 am

I don't agree with you and Clyde on this one. KP is injury prone and subject to tireness, like it or not. He should take a day off every now and then. We are not beating the Warriors just yet, so it's smart to give him a rest so that he can play full strength when we do have a shot. Actually, if anything, I would like to see KP sit a bit more as long as he hasn't figured out a way to stay strong and away from injuries the entire season. He still has work to do to build his body
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby NewlyKnicked » January 30, 2018, 10:46 am

Interesting analysis of how KP uses his height advantage:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2225 ... player-nba

Spoiler: he's way bigger than his defender pretty much all the time but struggles finding quality shots :hmm:
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby Don Che » January 30, 2018, 11:52 am

Hence he needs a post game of some sort
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby Red » January 30, 2018, 2:00 pm

Put a quality aggressive point guard next to KP and he becomes formidable. An Aldridge-DeAndre-STAT hybrid.

Take the pressure off, easy P&R/P&P baskets etc..

Sexton?
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby Don Che » January 30, 2018, 4:17 pm

Sexton isn't that guy... he still needs a lot more polish to be a lead guard IMO

My bleh feeling towards his game....is a sign we will draft him lol
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Re: [Merged] Kristaps Porzingis is Going to Become a Perennial All-Star

Postby taowave » January 31, 2018, 4:29 pm

I concur..

...what's your feeling on Kanter?

Red wrote:Put a quality aggressive point guard next to KP and he becomes formidable. An Aldridge-DeAndre-STAT hybrid.

Take the pressure off, easy P&R/P&P baskets etc..

Sexton?
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