Are we winning the Melo trade?

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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby nazrmohamed » December 16, 2017, 9:36 am

Besides the fact that it's max saying it, I think out actually makes sense for OKC. I've always thought that the key to the Thunders weaknesses even when Durant was there was a true pg. Even before this hodge podge I always thought West was more like Dwade than a real pg, it's just that he's so individually dominant that you might miss it or allow it. But putting Felton in allows him to move to the 2, George to the 3 and Melo to the 4
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 16, 2017, 10:18 am

You can see Westbrook is really Kobe after 5 cups of coffee..
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby KnicksRUs » December 16, 2017, 12:15 pm

maxinquaye11 wrote:They featured it a lil. Westbrook and Felton 2pg lineup to solve the OK3 woes. Book it.


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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby Don Che » December 17, 2017, 2:40 pm

Melo needs to come off the bench

Russ needs to play off the ball more
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby cragganmor » December 17, 2017, 4:44 pm

Russ is too stubborn to give up the rock. If he ain't giving it up to KD, who in the league, then? Also has a habit of just standing still without the ball, it must really burn Donovan. A brilliantly flawed player, the uber-Iverson.

OKC plays with talent on offense, but zero smarts. Have to commend their effort on D, although we shredded them; have to believe the 3OT drained them.
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby big_j_NY » December 17, 2017, 5:40 pm

cragganmor wrote:Russ is too stubborn to give up the rock. If he ain't giving it up to KD, who in the league, then? Also has a habit of just standing still without the ball, it must really burn Donovan. A brilliantly flawed player, the uber-Iverson.

OKC plays with talent on offense, but zero smarts. Have to commend their effort on D, although we shredded them; have to believe the 3OT drained them.


And this is why Westbrook will be ALL BY HIMSELF next season, no way either George and/or Melo stay in OKC past this season.

Melo already saw what it was like playing with D-Rose at point guard, and it seems it hasn't changed with a healthier, more athletic Westbrook at point guard either. Melo is gone from OKC when the off-season hits..........even if OKC somehow makes the playoffs
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 17, 2017, 5:44 pm

They need a real PG..

I don't like the way the team was put together.3 ball dominant ISO players and no shooters..


Don Che wrote:Melo needs to come off the bench

Russ needs to play off the ball more
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby big_j_NY » December 17, 2017, 5:49 pm

taowave wrote:They need a real PG..

I don't like the way the team was put together.3 ball dominant ISO players and no shooters..


OKC probably would've been alright if it was just Russ & George...........George is more of a "passive-esque player" than most people believe despite him struggling in this offense currently. He would've been like KG and Ray Allen on the Celtics alongside Paul Pierce......where Pierce got the ball-hogging glory while Ray was playing off-ball and KG was strictly a playmaker from the high post area.

George would've fit in well with Russ dominating the rock and George just "making plays."

It is the "Carmelo-factor" that changed everything........2 dominant ball-handlers and one "playmaker" that is NOT a point guard, yeah no wonder why George is also struggling.
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby gradyandrew » December 17, 2017, 10:15 pm

Yeah,we were supposed to see Olympic Melo, but they spend too much time standing around on offense.
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 18, 2017, 4:39 am

I think Olympic Melo is a function of LeBron's greatness.

If you don't believe me,look at the lineup the Cavs are throwing out there during their streak

Love
Crowder
Jr Smith
Jose Calderon?????

..
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby big_j_NY » December 18, 2017, 5:07 am

taowave wrote:I think Olympic Melo is a function of LeBron's greatness.

If you don't believe me,look at the lineup the Cavs are throwing out there during their streak

Love
Crowder
Jr Smith
Jose Calderon?????

..


You know tao, that is a very solid point you are bringing up there.

If you notice in Carmelo's "most dominant" Olympic years, he had Lebron (Wade & CP3 too) on the team with him to make sure they set him up for his shots.

In Carmelo's last Olympic year (which he still had one or two dominant games, especially a "record scoring" game), Carmelo did struggle to score a good number of those Olympic games with neither of those guys on the squad..........and it took Carmelo EVEN LONGER to get into rhythm in the Olympic games before he had his "record breaking" scoring explosion for one game.

So it could be that the "Olympic Melo" theory is nothing more than us forgetting the fact that Lebron, Wade, and CP3 were there to set his ass up..........whereas guys like D-Rose, Westbrook, and Kyrie Irving (yes, Irving was the starting PG of the LAST Olympic team) never really looked to set Carmelo up on offense and Melo was basically a spot-up shooter most of the time.

Its no wonder why Carmelo pushed for the trade to Houston first..........CP3 knows how to set up Carmelo better than all these other PGs in the league, especially back in the Olympic days.
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 18, 2017, 1:21 pm

I should have mentioned CP3 as well,and you are dead right.I am just so impressed with Bron right now during this streak..No Irving,no Thompson and they are on fire.

I'm definitely guilty of believing the Olympic Melo hype,but I am now with you..
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby shakespeare » December 18, 2017, 2:15 pm

big_j_NY wrote:
OKC probably would've been alright if it was just Russ & George.


It crossed my mind, so I tend to agree.

But if OKC or Westbrook, George and Melo really wanted the trio to work, it would definitely work. I honestly don't believe they understand how to make it work.
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby shakespeare » December 18, 2017, 2:17 pm

taowave wrote:I am just so impressed with Bron right now during this streak.


Same.

At this point of season, who would you say is the MVP of the league?

Irving or Harden or LeBron?
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 18, 2017, 4:51 pm

Definitely not Irving

Bron is playing out of his mind..Its arguably his best year ever...

Ild go with Durant number 2 and then Harden..




shakespeare wrote:
Same.

At this point of season, who would you say is the MVP of the league?

Irving or Harden or LeBron?
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby Don Che » December 18, 2017, 4:52 pm

harden.....Lebron is a close second
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 18, 2017, 7:58 pm

You got it backwards..
Bron does everything Harden does but more efficiently..and LeBron is a far superior defender..

Plead your case..

Don Che wrote:harden.....Lebron is a close second
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby taowave » December 24, 2017, 3:27 pm

Thunder have won 10 of 13,and Iso Melo is nowhere to be found


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How Iso Melo was freezing Russ, George and the OKC offense
play

Dec 23, 2017
Andre Snellings
ESPN
When Carmelo Anthony and Paul George joined Russell Westbrook in Oklahoma City this offseason, it looked like three superstars coming together to form a new superteam, an offensive juggernaut. But the Thunder are a dismal 17th in offensive rating.

One culprit: Anthony tends to play a lot of isolation basketball, preferring to have the ball in his hands to try to create scoring opportunities for himself off the dribble. This creates a lot of inefficient offense for OKC.



It's clear Thunder coach Billy Donovan recognizes the problem and has asked Melo to adjust to a new role in which he handles the ball less and works off the ball to get his shots. On Friday, Melo set season highs with seven made 3s on 12 attempts, mostly in catch-and-shoot situations.

"I think for me it's just a matter of accepting that role. That's all it is," Anthony said Friday night. "Realizing that's what it's going to be, these are the type of shots I'm going to get, this is the type of offense we're going to be running and accepting that, and working on that role. That's something that I've kind of been doing over the past week, is allowing myself to accept that role and do whatever I gotta do to make this team win."

The sooner that Iso Melo disappears for good and Anthony takes full advantage of playing with stars, the sooner the Thunder can reach their potential.

There are three key reasons why Anthony's iso game is a problem:

1. He doesn't create team offense

It has been demonstrated that volume-scoring wings like Anthony have a larger impact if they are also strong at creating team offense with the pass. Anthony's 17.4 assist percentage in his past four seasons with the Knicks was significantly behind that of Olympic teammates LeBron James (36.9 percent), Kevin Durant (24.6 percent) and Kobe Bryant (26.7 percent over his last four seasons). This season Anthony is down to a 7.8 assist percentage.

2. He creates primarily midrange jumpers for himself

The midrange jumper is the least efficient shot in basketball -- it goes in less often and draws fewer free throws than shots near the rim, but it's still worth only two points. This is the foundation for the Houston Rockets' philosophy of shooting either a 3-pointer or at the rim on almost every possession, and the same logic has permeated much of the NBA. Offenses built on iso play generate a lot of midrange looks off the dribble.

This is why Donovan has talked about reducing the number of "nonpaint 2s" the Thunder shoot, as reported by ESPN's Royce Young.

Anthony is one of the best iso scorers of his generation, but that doesn't solve the efficiency problem. According to Basketball-Reference, 47.1 percent of Anthony's field goal attempts this season are midrange 2s, barely down from his 49.5 with the Knicks last season.

By comparison, Durant took only 33.3 percent of his shots and James 23.4 percent of his shots in that range from 2014-15 thru 2016-17.

3. He doesn't imbalance the defense by involving multiple defenders

Some scorers get multiple defenders moving with post-up play that leads to double-teams or by running a lot of pick-and-roll plays. Others do so by driving to the basket. But Anthony engages in very few of these actions.

Anthony generates a lot of shots for himself, putting up points and maintaining "star" status. But at the team level, he's not generating star-level impact.

In Oklahoma City, that's especially damaging, because every possession Anthony uses is one that Westbrook, OKC's truly elite offensive engine, can't use to generate better results for the team.

Over the past three seasons, according to ESPN's real plus-minus (RPM) stat, Westbrook has been second in the NBA in each season in offensive impact. RPM estimates how a player impacts the team's scoring margin while he's on the court via a combination of plus-minus and box score stats.

This measure is broken down to offensive RPM (ORPM) and defensive RPM (DRPM). This is how the Thunder's three star players measured out in ORPM over the past two seasons, leading into this one:

Offensive Real Plus-Minus
ORPM OVERALL RANK
Russell Westbrook 2015-16 7.25 2
Russell Westbrook 2016-17 6.74 2
Paul George 2015-16 3.35 11
Paul George 2016-17 2.67 29
Carmelo Anthony. 2015-16 2.97 17
Carmelo Anthony 2016-17 1.87 42

Westbrook is on a different level from Anthony and George as an offensive force. Anthony, in particular, has not produced the level of positive impact that one might expect, even though offense is the primary way that he affects games.

Look at the shots Anthony is taking, according to Second Spectrum: 22.8 percent are pull-up jumpers, and 15.5 percent are "shake and raise," which means that a total of 38.3 percent of his shots are jumpers off the dribble. The pull-up jumper is the most frequent type of shot that Anthony takes, and he has just a 36.8 percent effective field goal percentage (eFG, which factors in the true value of 3s compared to 2s) on those shots.

Given that Anthony is playing with one of the greatest offensive engines in the game, there is no need for him to create so much for himself off the dribble. In fact, Anthony is an excellent catch-and-shoot player, either spotting up or catching the ball on the move. According to Second Spectrum, here are his numbers in those situations from both last season and this one:

Anthony On Catch-And-Shoots
PLAY TYPE SEASON EFG ATT

Catch-and-shoot (standing)2016-17 62.2 249
Catch-and-shoot (moving) 2016-17 56.8 103
Catch-and-shoot (standing)2017-18 53.4 88
Catch-and-shoot (moving) 2017-18 66.7 51


So, even this season when his iso jumpers aren't falling, Anthony is still knocking down his catch-and-shoot opportunities at a high clip.

OKC and Melo have recognized this, as Anthony acknowledged on Friday when he explained the change in shot selection: "Just talking, communication, watching film," he said. "With coach figuring out what this team really needs from myself, and I said something back in New York that we all need to figure out what our roles are on the team, so I think I figured out what my role would be on it."

In its last two games, OKC has posted an outstanding offensive rating in each: 119.2 vs. Utah on Wednesday and 124.2 vs. Atlanta on Friday. To keep the momentum going, OKC should continue to look for opportunities for Anthony to be a finisher, instead of a creator. As the Thunder showed on Friday, one key mechanism for doing that is to involve him in the on-ball pick action as the screener for Westbrook, usually one of the most active users of ball screens (along with former teammate James Harden).

In 2016-17, according to Second Spectrum, Westbrook utilized 65.7 percent of all direct picks used by the Thunder and generated 0.96 points per possession. In 2017-18 thus far, Westbrook has utilized only 53.3 percent of OKC's direct picks and generated 0.91 points per action.

But when Anthony is the pick-setter for Westbrook, that play has generated 1.031 points per direct pick (with a total of 130 direct picks). It creates easier shots for the players involved as well as for teammates in motion in off-ball action.


During the first two months of the season, the Thunder did not perform as expected. Some improvement should have been expected to happen organically, as they got used to playing with one another. More improvement should come when the Thunder's stars make more shots, as they have not lived up to their usual shooting percentages.

But just as important is that the Thunder's superteam experiment began as too much of an equal-opportunity offense when Westbrook is the only elite offense generator on the team. If Anthony can stay away from being Iso Melo and embrace the less glamorous role of screen setter and finisher, OKC's offense could improve dramatically as a unit moving forward.

Donovan sounded optimistic on Friday: "I give him a lot of credit because this is different for him, and he's really been open-minded about trying to do whatever he can do to help the team. And as a coach you really appreciate someone that's been in the game such a long time and established himself as a 10-time All-Star, 14 years in the league, one of the all-time greats, that he's willing to look at ways that he can do things a little bit differently to help our team."



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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby ISIAH_THOMAS » December 24, 2017, 5:00 pm

Yup he. Changed his style more off ball less iso and the team is winning. If he did it here he would of had more success and players might of came 2 play here :?
TAKE THAT FOR DATA
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Re: Are we winning the Melo trade?

Postby spree#8 » December 26, 2017, 8:19 am

You need to have talent, to get the ball out of a star player's hand. Nothing surprising here. Good that they are slowly figuring out how to play together.
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