Take that for data

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Re: Take that for data

Postby nazrmohamed » May 8, 2018, 9:27 am

For me, one of the greatest sports interview moments ever involved JVG.

The team had just won a narrow victory, but had played poorly. The only reason the Knicks had squeaked out the win was the other team shot under 60 percent from the line. The interviewer asked JVG what his team did to achieve victory and he said something like "Our free throw defense was crucial". The interviewer didn't even seem to pick up on it.

Of course you could be talking about Jeff H. Not JVG...


Yeah, I remember his interviews. In fact when he joined the game crew as an analyst I was so surprised to find he had a sense of humor cuz when he was on the Knicks he looked tired and sounded bitter at all times. We'd win a game by 20 and he'd be the only grump talking about all our missed assignments. But ya know that's what we eventually need in NY whether it be Fizzdale or an upgrade coach down the line. IDK if our team is ready for that right now
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Re: Take that for data

Postby dcapodic » May 8, 2018, 9:34 am

Don Che wrote:for me worst case scenario is him being another Woodson.

Best case hes another Riley

as much as I liked Jeff...i really couldnt stand his interviews....Fizdale tho actually talks like a human being.

along with the fact he started from the bottom..he was an intern under Erik Spo in the video room for the Heat. think about that type of jump. Also got into coaching in college and went into the NBA..i mean the guy just did all the hard work and a wide variety of knowledge.

I'm hyped


as much as I liked Jeff...i really couldnt stand his interviews....Fizdale tho actually talks like a human being


Not sure i can think of anything less relevant than this :) ...cause we all know how good an interview Bill Belichick is right...

One of the "fears" I have about Fiz is that he IS just smoke and mirrors and all talk. Don't get me wrong, I was on board for the hire from the start but like most here, I don't REALLY know him from a hole in the ground.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 8, 2018, 10:00 am

DC,that is exactly my concern..The guy is charasmatic,smooth but has no track record









dcapodic wrote:
One of the "fears" I have about Fiz is that he IS just smoke and mirrors and all talk. Don't get me wrong, I was on board for the hire from the start but like most here, I don't REALLY know him from a hole in the ground.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby dcapodic » May 8, 2018, 11:00 am

taowave wrote:DC,that is exactly my concern..The guy is charasmatic,smooth but has no track record



....and I think that the concern is legit. It is not just being a "Debbie Downer" but the guy has little to judge by. I like the enthusiasm that people are showing but no matter how you look at it, his time in Memphis was not really a positive.

Again, this being said....I like the hire and have liked the idea of giving Fiz a try from the start. When you make a decision to enter a rebuild process, part of that is gonna be your front office and coach. I like the idea of taking a chance on a guy with limited experience but good upside potential. Does he have negatives, yea but there are also positives. So, yes it is a "risk" versus a Bud type for sure.

The "good" thing....the Knick's have shown only too well that they have no issues getting rid of "mistakes" and simply paying them off to go away. So, if it does not work out it shouldn't hurt much. It is still gonna be a while before they have enough talent to be taken seriously and that should be plenty of time to judge Fiz.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby Don Che » May 8, 2018, 11:44 am

i really dont see your concerns....theres enough data and interviews on this guy to know what your getting.


i'm confident that i know what we are getting but i took the time to look things up.

i mean...he was an assistant for almost a decade...and coached 1 full year. Was fired due to the relationship he had with Marc.

have a good idea of what his strengths and weaknesses are and i think him being so young and willing to learn(meeting with Larry Brown to discuss the Philly and Detroit teams) from others is a positive sign.

whoever doesnt know anything about him is purely because you havent looked anything up.

and sadly...communication is a huge part of that job in 2018
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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 8, 2018, 1:46 pm

The data indicates he added no "value" to Memphis..Increasing Joergers win total by 1 with a healthier squad isnt a ringing endorsement..

Interviews are nice,but true performance is based on W/L records..

That does not mean he wont knock the cover off the ball.That possibility exists..

Its simply a more speculative approach,and understandable with our team/situation




Don Che wrote:i really dont see your concerns....theres enough data and interviews on this guy to know what your getting.


i'm confident that i know what we are getting but i took the time to look things up.

i mean...he was an assistant for almost a decade...and coached 1 full year. Was fired due to the relationship he had with Marc.

have a good idea of what his strengths and weaknesses are and i think him being so young and willing to learn(meeting with Larry Brown to discuss the Philly and Detroit teams) from others is a positive sign.

whoever doesnt know anything about him is purely because you havent looked anything up.

and sadly...communication is a huge part of that job in 2018
Last edited by taowave on May 8, 2018, 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby StevoStarks » May 8, 2018, 1:56 pm

There would be concern with anyone that was hired. No one is perfect. But people can be perfect for a situation and I think that's what we have here. We want him, he wants to be here. He's up to the challenge. Everyone has something to prove.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 8, 2018, 4:15 pm

Agreed,but a proven track record goes a long way..
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Re: Take that for data

Postby StevoStarks » May 8, 2018, 4:26 pm

taowave wrote:Agreed,but a proven track record goes a long way..


Sure does. And that's why my favorite NY hire of late was Larry Brown. With that proven track record and a finals win under his belt, we really struck gold.

Lenny Wilkins and his 1332 wins definitely took us deep into the playoffs.

Mike D'Antoni was one of the hottest coaches in the NBA and had more or less changed the entire landscape of the offense in the NBA. I'll never forget all of those playoff wins he brought NY.

And then there's Phil and his 42 championship rings. Bringing that resume to NY went perfectly.

:drunk:

:hmm:

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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 8, 2018, 5:22 pm

Phil actually supports the theory of a track record..

Zero GM experience,Zero winning seasons..

Mike D is a great example as a counter supporting you..

Larry and Zeke were a mess..Don't know what to say there..

Lenny won alot,and he lost alot..

Pat Riley is a winner and a guy who went from showtime to Brawler..

My hesitation on Fiz is he didn't pull a Woodstock out of the hat..I do think he learned a valuable lesson with Gasol.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby NewlyKnicked » May 9, 2018, 2:49 am

Clearly there is good and bad with any coach we may have come up with and no one is a surefire deal, but what I find pretty reassuring with Fiz is that he is not stuck in his ways yet. Dont get me wrong he has ideas on how he wants the game to be played but he's also described as a sponge and willing to adapt to his environment and acknowledge past mistakes and learn from them.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby NewlyKnicked » May 9, 2018, 2:57 am

taowave wrote:The data indicates he added no "value" to Memphis..Increasing Joergers win total by 1 with a healthier squad isnt a ringing endorsement..

Interviews are nice,but true performance is based on W/L records..

That does not mean he wont knock the cover off the ball.That possibility exists..

Its simply a more speculative approach,and understandable with our team/situation

He did improve the Memphis defense from 19th to 7th in the league and modernized their offense while keeping the systems the players were most familiar with. Not everything worked out of course, but you can't limit your analysis to W-L either
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Re: Take that for data

Postby Red » May 9, 2018, 6:07 am

All you need know...

“Coming here, I see athletes, I see speed, I see a physical toughness to us,” Fizdale said. “I want to get up and down the court, I want to share the basketball, I want to attack the paint. But none of that will start without us being a great defensive team.”

“We’re going to be a team that really plays a pressure, physical style,” Fizdale said as observers tried to detect if his nose was growing or if his pants were on fire. “Get a lot of deflections, try to get a lot of steals, get into the open court, earn the right to go play a more free-flowing, attacking style of offense.

“I want to establish a top-ranked defense, a fast defense, a disruptive defense, a versatile defense, a loud defense that sparks offense, and gets us into the open court,” Fizdale said.”-nypost


Sounds familiar.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 9, 2018, 6:41 am

You can certainly limit your analysis to W-L...

At the end of the day,its all about performance,and in most cases i am NOT talking relative

We arent here to outperform benchmarks




NewlyKnicked wrote:He did improve the Memphis defense from 19th to 7th in the league and modernized their offense while keeping the systems the players were most familiar with. Not everything worked out of course, but you can't limit your analysis to W-L either
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Re: Take that for data

Postby NewlyKnicked » May 9, 2018, 7:05 am

taowave wrote:You can certainly limit your analysis to W-L...

At the end of the day,its all about performance,and in most cases i am NOT talking relative

We arent here to outperform benchmarks

Aren't you on team tank for next season? So it'd be ideal to have a team "outperform benchmarks" while keeping a low W-L record don't you think?
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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 9, 2018, 7:27 am

It would be best to lose every game or even make the playoffs... :)

It's the middle ground that sucks..
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Re: Take that for data

Postby shakespeare » May 9, 2018, 8:38 am

StevoStarks wrote:Sure does. And that's why my favorite NY hire of late was Larry Brown. With that proven track record and a finals win under his belt, we really struck gold.

Lenny Wilkins and his 1332 wins definitely took us deep into the playoffs.

Mike D'Antoni was one of the hottest coaches in the NBA and had more or less changed the entire landscape of the offense in the NBA. I'll never forget all of those playoff wins he brought NY.

And then there's Phil and his 42 championship rings. Bringing that resume to NY went perfectly.


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Re: Take that for data

Postby Don Che » May 9, 2018, 8:54 am

Tao....Joerger is a good coach also.

its really stupid that you guys really dont give any context to your thought.


Joe is a good coach..memphis was a good team. Fiz took over made the defense better but overall where the coaches took them is exactly what that roster indicated and the playoffs is match ups..if he doesnt run into a cyborg of Kawhi lord knows where that team ends up. Zach was 35...Marc is fading past his prime but still good..Fiz created more opportunity for Conley and both of those guys had great years(compared to their other years) under Fiz.

year after they come in hot and injuries break them down and was fired purely due to his relationship with Marc both of their best players missed time and Memphis is just overall retarded.

Hollins...is a good coach
Joe ....is a good coach
Fiz..... is a good coach

Memphis is failing because they overpaid for Marc and Conley...so they are strapped to those contracts. The coaches were not the problem in Memphis...the Front Office's expectations and investments are.

similar to the Dwayne Casey effect if hes fired...in most cases the issue is the roster IMO..the Bucks situation was coaching but Toronto....sorry to break it to them but Casey didnt get out coached...he just didnt have Lebron James on his team.

people today only look at wins/ losses w/o looking at games...I'm gonna be in a world that Steve Kerr is the best coach ever when really.....I could coach KD/Curry/Klay/Dray to the finals. Tyron Lue...is gonna be known as a good coach and i can't WAIT to see Lebron leave and watch him sh*t the bed.

the only great coaches is Pop and Brad. Snyder is a level or 2 below and most NBA coaches are in that bucket. If you give them the horses to win they'll win if you dont..they lose. It depends mainly on your best 2 players matching the style of play your coach develops and communication.

if we suck next year ill have to read stupid comments saying that its Fiz's fault lmao no reference to the roster he's inherited. Same issue with Jeff.
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Re: Take that for data

Postby NYGM » May 9, 2018, 10:35 am

taowave wrote:The data indicates he added no "value" to Memphis..Increasing Joergers win total by 1 with a healthier squad isnt a ringing endorsement..

Interviews are nice,but true performance is based on W/L records..

That does not mean he wont knock the cover off the ball.That possibility exists..

Its simply a more speculative approach,and understandable with our team/situation
]


Maybe Joger is a really good coach too..

Fizdale is regarded as a great up a coming coach with solid record as an assistant and as a coach in Memphis..

What's not like here?
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Re: Take that for data

Postby taowave » May 9, 2018, 11:33 am

Don,Joerger is a good coach....Fiz took HEALTHIER team to the same level as Joerger.He then had a bad start and was fired.Sub .500 coach overall...Thats his head coaching resume..

You can interject anything you like,but the fact is,Fiz won one more game than Joerger with a much healthier lineup..Look it up.Gasol and Conley played 52 and 56 games with Joerger..

I like Bud better.No more,No less..

Context??? Cmon Don,you apply it very subjectively :happy:




Don Che wrote:Tao....Joerger is a good coach also.

its really stupid that you guys really dont give any context to your thought.


Joe is a good coach..memphis was a good team. Fiz took over made the defense better but overall where the coaches took them is exactly what that roster indicated and the playoffs is match ups..if he doesnt run into a cyborg of Kawhi lord knows where that team ends up. Zach was 35...Marc is fading past his prime but still good..Fiz created more opportunity for Conley and both of those guys had great years(compared to their other years) under Fiz.

year after they come in hot and injuries break them down and was fired purely due to his relationship with Marc both of their best players missed time and Memphis is just overall retarded.

Hollins...is a good coach
Joe ....is a good coach
Fiz..... is a good coach

Memphis is failing because they overpaid for Marc and Conley...so they are strapped to those contracts. The coaches were not the problem in Memphis...the Front Office's expectations and investments are.

similar to the Dwayne Casey effect if hes fired...in most cases the issue is the roster IMO..the Bucks situation was coaching but Toronto....sorry to break it to them but Casey didnt get out coached...he just didnt have Lebron James on his team.

people today only look at wins/ losses w/o looking at games...I'm gonna be in a world that Steve Kerr is the best coach ever when really.....I could coach KD/Curry/Klay/Dray to the finals. Tyron Lue...is gonna be known as a good coach and i can't WAIT to see Lebron leave and watch him sh*t the bed.

the only great coaches is Pop and Brad. Snyder is a level or 2 below and most NBA coaches are in that bucket. If you give them the horses to win they'll win if you dont..they lose. It depends mainly on your best 2 players matching the style of play your coach develops and communication.

if we suck next year ill have to read stupid comments saying that its Fiz's fault lmao no reference to the roster he's inherited. Same issue with Jeff.
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