Starting lineup

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Re: Starting lineup

Postby NYGM » October 11, 2018, 11:41 am

shakespeare wrote:NYGM,

If you believe Ntili is a better point guard than Ball, then I really hope Frank lives up to your expectations.

Seriously.

Every basketball outlet listing the Top 100 players in the league have Ball ranked higher than Ntilikina [not ranked, period]. Like, everyone isn’t telling the same lie.


Not saying Frank is better than Ball right now.. Ball is ahead, and I like Lonzo..

But also not buying that some players will improve and others won't..

I rather see us get some Rondo-Holliday backcourt than Lillard-McCollough, you fell me?..

Different styles and both can be effective..

I have a lot of confidence in Frank's shooting form, he definitely will be better shooter than Lonzo, also better defender too.. Frank would be bigger and stronger than Ball too..

Lonzo is good, that's why he got picked higher and we have Frank not Lonzo, so I'm rooting for the kid to get better.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby spree#8 » October 11, 2018, 1:52 pm

I doubt that our starting line-up will be the worst in the league even with Porzingis out at the start. I see at least 9-10 equally bad line-ups out there and just as a reminder, our starting line-up of Jack, Lee, Hardaway, Porzingis, Kanter had the 9th best net rating (in total) among five-men-units that played over 300 minutes together. https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... y=diff_pts

The 8th best when put in a possession perspective: https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... y=diff_pts

So if Knox (basically replacing Porzingis) gives us something even as a rookie, our starting line-up could surprise a few people. But we'll see.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby nazrmohamed » October 11, 2018, 4:12 pm

Why are people fine with guys playing "not timid" aka tanking a bunch of shots without being able to got them at a decent rate?


He who takes shots will eventually get better at making shots. He who is scared to shoot...will continue to be poor at making shots. That doesnt dictate entirely how I view a prospect but as it pertains to a guy becoming a great scorer it does matter. Durant had a lousy rookie shooting percentage but he put up a decent scoring rate. As he got older he got more efficient.

And you know I like Frank but hes gotta do the math if he's so smart. 2 of 5 is lousy, but 3 of 5 is good. You wanna be lousy or good everyday or take 10 shots with a solid sample size? So in fact taking only 5 well thought out shots isn't actually a well thought out plan. And here's the deal. Frank could be twice the defender he is now, nobody cares or remembers that shit. This isn't me saying what should be or my philosophy on why we should value defense. You know I'll send him but sometimes you gotta play politics in life, check off boxes. And fair or not people want him to score.

If he scored 20 tomorrow with 6 assists and couldn't defend a wet paper bag guess what? Wed ignore the wet paper bag. I'm just saying this as a guy who wants him to play. Fuck it, if Treys so hot, let him chase everybody around and not be appreciated for it. People think you cant score, address that
Last edited by nazrmohamed on October 11, 2018, 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby NYGM » October 11, 2018, 4:21 pm

I hear you Naz..

People like JR Smith is not affraid to shot either.. Nutcase like Gilbert Arenas were not timid to score..

Players like Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard increased his offense thru the years, it can be done..

But i choose to avoid those who can't defend a paperbag and go for those who can play in both ends..

Don't you have enough of those kind of players?
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby maxinquaye11 » October 12, 2018, 9:47 am

You mean Amare Stat?
Last edited by maxinquaye11 on October 13, 2018, 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby nazrmohamed » October 12, 2018, 2:52 pm

NYGM wrote:I hear you Naz..

People like JR Smith is not affraid to shot either.. Nutcase like Gilbert Arenas were not timid to score..

Players like Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard increased his offense thru the years, it can be done..

But i choose to avoid those who can't defend a paperbag and go for those who can play in both ends..

Don't you have enough of those kind of players?


I want Frank to have a job in 3 yrs. I want to appreciate his game for the next 10. Sometimes you gotta check off some boxes to shut people up and then go back to what you do.

I don't think it's fair for everyone to ignore his defense but that's what's gonna happen. This team is too trash to just blend in. Hes gotta make a name for himself this year cuz next year top tier talent will come in. And that could even be via the draft.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby taowave » October 13, 2018, 11:14 am

Never thought i would say this,but it looks like Mudiay has a shot to start :?


With the regular season around the corner, the Knicks’ starting point guard remains an open battle.

David Fizdale started four different point guards in five preseason games – including Ron Baker in the finale Friday against the Nets – but nobody has seized the moment.

Trey Burke is an option to start at point guard, but David Fizdale indicated his conditioning leaves something to be desired.

“I am definitely undecided going into the first game,” Fizdale said. “I don’t feel a deadline for game one like everybody else does. We’re not the Warriors or Houston or somebody where we have to know who we are, a set rotation, and get guys in their roles right away.

“We’ve still got a lot to figure out. We’ve still got a lot of guys we’re evaluating, figuring out how they fit into the puzzle. So this thing is something — like I said before, it could change. Going into it I honestly don’t know right now who is the starting point guard.”

Trey Burke had the inside track at the position but underwhelmed when he started the first two preseason games. Fizdale hinted that conditioning was an issue as the Knicks try to play at a quicker pace.

“I think for him and for every guy it’s an adjustment to how fast we are trying to play, how we are trying to defend, the activity and the effort that it took to pick up 94 feet,” Fizdale said. “I think you saw that with him a lot. It’s a different level of conditioning you have to have to do both ends of the floor that way and obviously while you’re doing that and learning a whole new system, there are going to be some adjustments.”

Emmanuel Mudiay and Frank Ntilikina also started preseason games at point guard.

Despite the fluid approach, Fizdale is set on the other four starters so long as they’re healthy – Tim Hardaway Jr. at shooting guard, Knox at small forward, Lance Thomas at power forward and Enes Kanter at center.

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Re: Starting lineup

Postby KnicksRUs » October 13, 2018, 11:24 am

Is it seriously not painfully clear that Frank needs to start at PG? If nothing else what he adds from a defensive perspective is invaluable.

Mudiay is an absolute mess. Burke's best part of his game is the most inefficient shot in the NBA and his size is a huge liability. And who the hell knows why Baker is still getting any sort of a look.

Frank has clearly at least improved some offensively. He's always had that innate court vision you need as a PG. Something that Mudiay and Burke don't have. What is this need to try and develop him as a SG? Maybe he'll get there down the road, but shooting is probably his biggest improvement area.

The mindset of this ownership group is long and athletic. If that's your motto then commit to it. This season is a wash anyways so focus on instilling a defensive culture from your nucleus.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby taowave » October 13, 2018, 11:46 am

Thats exactly my thoughts,plus its the only position on the floor where he may have the tools to be a difference maker....

Any other position is an obvious attempt to hide his weaknesses......



KnicksRUs wrote:Is it seriously not painfully clear that Frank needs to start at PG? If nothing else what he adds from a defensive perspective is invaluable.

Mudiay is an absolute mess. Burke's best part of his game is the most inefficient shot in the NBA and his size is a huge liability. And who the hell knows why Baker is still getting any sort of a look.

Frank has clearly at least improved some offensively. He's always had that innate court vision you need as a PG. Something that Mudiay and Burke don't have. What is this need to try and develop him as a SG? Maybe he'll get there down the road, but shooting is probably his biggest improvement area.

The mindset of this ownership group is long and athletic. If that's your motto then commit to it. This season is a wash anyways so focus on instilling a defensive culture from your nucleus.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby Don Che » October 13, 2018, 1:08 pm

agreed..start Frank

Tao what makes you think mudiay has a shot?

seems like Baker out played him for the back up role
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby nazrmohamed » October 13, 2018, 1:19 pm

My lineup

AND NO, I REFUSE TO APOLOGIZE FOR BELIEVING PLAYERS HAVE POSITIONS.!!!

PG-Frank/Burke/Mudiay
SG- Hardaway/Lee/Trier
SF- Knox/anybody who wants double duty
PF- Thomas/Vonleh
C-Kanter/Robinson

If your name ain't on this list please go down to the registrar and make sure your payments are in order. I really dont care. Maybe Dotson and Kornet gets to waive towels and be injury insurance.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby NYGM » October 13, 2018, 2:29 pm

People coming around Frank.. Great to see..

He's improved, you got to reward hard work and improvement that is part of development..

I think is not about hiding Frank weaknesses, is more about trying to accommodate other players who are less versatile into playing time..

The way to put those other guys on the floor is taking advantage of Frank's ability to do a lot more things that they are..
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby Quietmoney » October 13, 2018, 5:16 pm

Sorry guys.. I know everybody loves Frank in here but his defense was only average during the preseason.. Burke played the best on ball defense at the guard spot this preseason.. he picked up full court a lot and the guards he played against didn’t score on him efficiently.. his offense was off because he was spending a lot of his energy on defense.. but he’s the one that needs to start.. it should be his job to lose given the fact that he earned it last year by out playing the other point guards on the team.. I’m skeptical about Frank playing against starters for over 30 minuets a game.. some nights he’ll be ok depending on who he’s guarding but I’m not sure how he’ll hold up for a 30 game stretch..
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby NYGM » October 13, 2018, 6:33 pm

Quietmoney wrote:Sorry guys.. I know everybody loves Frank in here but his defense was only average during the preseason.. Burke played the best on ball defense at the guard spot this preseason.. he picked up full court a lot and the guards he played against didn’t score on him efficiently.. his offense was off because he was spending a lot of his energy on defense.. but he’s the one that needs to start.. it should be his job to lose given the fact that he earned it last year by out playing the other point guards on the team.. I’m skeptical about Frank playing against starters for over 30 minuets a game.. some nights he’ll be ok depending on who he’s guarding but I’m not sure how he’ll hold up for a 30 game stretch..


Trey is not a good defender, he never will be better defender than Frank.. What the hell are you talking about, the kid is all over the court giving this team another dimension on defense..

Burke is a target for every team on the league.. If he's not scoring efficiently (just did it once at the end of last season in his whole career) he's not doing much else..

I'm not against to Burke starting since he played great last season for us.. But he didn't earn it this preseason...

Most people are high in Frank because he's a ldefender already at 20 and is showing that his hard work this off-season is playing off..
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby taowave » October 13, 2018, 6:37 pm

He has some degree of point guard instincts and seems to see the floor on the break...I cant figure out why he has no fire..The guy makes Frank look aggressive

Burke has shown me nada,and he was my guy....Baker has the heart and desire I wish the other guys had..



Don Che wrote:agreed..start Frank

Tao what makes you think mudiay has a shot?

seems like Baker out played him for the back up role
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby nazrmohamed » October 13, 2018, 6:51 pm

I noticed too that Frank's defense has come down a bit but I chalked it up to a dramatic weight gain and him trying to force it a bit on offense. In essence he's following my advice. IAnd when I say come down it's still the best on the team mind you but I don't think people really understand how good he was defensively. I think he was first or second amongst all rookies in steals and if he wasn't first Lonzo Ball was. And even without the statistical defense, people talk about how he picks up his dribble....he had established ball handlers altering the way they play when he was up against him. Guys who'd normally blaze past other guards around either give it up to someone else or worse appear to be dribbling in circles. He was indeed one of the better defenders in the league as a rookie.

I think shakes said then why didn't he make the all defensive team. Honestly I just think because he carries such a low profile offensively and since his defense isn't really stat based and he doesn't use it to then run breaks on the other end its not yet noticed. Or its noticed but since his offense can't keep him on the floor then there are better guys to recognize.

That's why I've said, yes gotta play better offense to be in a position to even showcase that defense cuz you could be a good defender but if your offense makes you a backup guess what? Your sample size ain't big enough for you to get recognized for the one thing you are elite at.

I think this added muscle could help him but
- he's gotta get used to it quickly
- and dont forget guys. Lots of new rule that'll hurt defenders this year with anti impending movement penalties. Let's hope he wasn't better off staying skinny.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby NYGM » October 13, 2018, 8:36 pm

[quote]
“My overall body, it [gives me the] ability to feel comfortable on the court right now — defensively and offensively,’’ Ntilikina said, “I feel I played with a more free mind.”

Ntilikina averaged 7.1 points in 20 minutes on 45.2 shooting and 50 percent on 3-pointers this preseason. He shot almost 10 percent higher than last regular season.

How it all factors into Fizdale’s final decision on his starting point guard is unclear. The coach said he will pore over analytics regarding “which groups had the best offensive, defensive efficiency together.”

The 20-year-old Ntilikina can play enough minutes at shooting guard and small forward to show his worth. By contrast, Trey Burke, who ended last season as the starter, is strictly a point guard.

Those are reasons why Burke is the favorite to win the job despite a modest preseason performance (35.9 percent shooting). Emmanuel Mudiay and Ron Baker may be left fighting for scraps.

“They all showed the ability to run the team and guard their position well,’’ Fizdale said. “They’ve made it tough on me — which is good.’’

During last season’s All-Star weekend, Ntilikina expressed a preference to start, but he’s not going there. His English is more measured this season and he pauses a couple of seconds before answering in his second language.

“We have a great coach for our team,’’ said Ntilikina, whose seven starts last season all came at shooting guard. “We trust him to do the best decisions. He knows basketball. If he wants me to start, I’ll start. I’ll be ready. If he wants me to come off the bench, doesn’t matter. I’ll come on the court as ready as I’ll be.”/quote]
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby nazrmohamed » October 13, 2018, 10:08 pm

STFU Frank and let your agents Nazr and NYGM of Total Management handle this. You starting.
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby NYGM » October 14, 2018, 8:01 am

nazrmohamed wrote:STFU Frank and let your agents Nazr and NYGM of Total Management handle this. You starting.


:LOL:
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Re: Starting lineup

Postby taowave » October 14, 2018, 10:19 am

How about common sense and consistency do the talking???

If you are going to start Knox and let him develop,how about the same for Frank????





nazrmohamed wrote:STFU Frank and let your agents Nazr and NYGM of Total Management handle this. You starting.
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