Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

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Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby ezfranca » November 6, 2013, 8:13 pm

Guys, long time since my last post :)

I am alive!!

Well, I am not bashing the team, or going into the panic mode, yet.

But, I do not think the Melo era can be a title and sucessful era in NY.

So, I look to myself thinking about plans to rebuild the knicks.

What do you think we can do to rebuild ?

Amare is over
Chandler is glass made
Melo is the best offensive weapon in the league, but I do not think he can push a team to the next level alone
JR is insane
Artest is fading fast
Felton is a medium starter
Bargnani is terrible

So, I think all those guys can be traded in a rebuild plan.

What do you do with it ?

I think a good plan of rebuild is stockpile draft picks and get role players who plays Defense.

What can we get with those assets ?

I am really missing the pre-melo team :(
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby Muzhik1 » November 6, 2013, 8:22 pm

Trade#1
New York Knicks Trade
Carmelo
Jr. Smith
Beno

Warriors
David Lee
Stephen Curry
Klay Thompson
1st round pick

Perfect trade, but I doubt warriors do it.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby Muzhik1 » November 6, 2013, 8:25 pm

The bottom line is Melo's trade value is at all-time high, since he just came off his best season of his career. If we trade him now, we will get a bunch of assets and picks. If we give him extension, he becomes an overpaid burden in a few years, who will affect our ability to sign new players under the new CBA.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby ezfranca » November 6, 2013, 8:33 pm

Muzhik1 wrote:Trade#1
New York Knicks Trade
Carmelo
Jr. Smith
Beno

Warriors
David Lee
Stephen Curry
Klay Thompson
1st round pick
Perfect trade, but I doubt warriors do it.




I do not think they trade curry, but I think they can trade to build a curry/melo combo. So, we can get Lee, Klay, Barnes maybe Iggy or Bogut if put Tyson on the deal.quote]
What do you think ?
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby Muzhik1 » November 6, 2013, 8:35 pm

[/quote]I do not think they trade curry, but I think they can trade to build a curry/melo combo. So, we can get Lee, Klay, Barnes maybe Iggy or Bogut if put Tyson on the deal.quote]
What do you think ?[/quote]

Absolutely. This would give us an improved team. I would expect Warriors to throw in a pick or two in the deal though.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby spree#8 » November 6, 2013, 8:44 pm

No ideas, against it. Knicks have no first round picks in 2014 and 2016, so now is not the time to chose to lose. Melo is 29 and we have a great opportunity to go into free agency 2015 after some success with a franchise player already on hand, so what you do till then is stay the course and try to improve without giving up too much future cap space, so in 2015 we can go after a Kevin Love. If by 2016 we are not in contention with Melo at 32, you can think about starting over and finally rebuild the right way: through the draft from 2017 on with all picks on deck.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby JoeD » November 6, 2013, 8:53 pm

For me it all starts by letting Melo walk he has an opt out and he is going to use it. Once he walk the Knicks let him go and put full emphasis on the draft next year. Go into tank mode and pray the Knicks walk out with a top pick. This pick will be the future of the Knicks. With that said Amare, Chandler and Bargs will all be coming off the books at the same time so fresh new free agents will be available. 2015 you will have a new look NYK team one built around their own draft pick.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby spree#8 » November 6, 2013, 9:15 pm

Again: 1) if you have success on the court, a star player in his prime and are a big market, you can have success in free agency in 2015. If you tank 2014-2015, the biggest free agent won't come to NY. You have to show your ability to put a quality team on the floor or even the most attractive town is just another town for an NBA star. That is the lesson anyone should've learned from 2010. NY alone is not enough to draw anyone.
2) If you want to start a rebuild through the draft, you can't have future first round picks (in this case the 2014 and 2016 one) not at your disposal. You can't chose to lose, while you owe other teams picks. And you can't trade picks while you are bad (that is the mistake Isiah made). You can't bet on just one draft. A real rebuild through the draft is not possible in NY till 2017.

So there is no reason to start a rebuild now. Especially not with just four games played.. Trade market and coach are the first two things to explore to improve if the current team and Woody don't turn it around quickly.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby H20Knick » November 6, 2013, 9:15 pm

The warriors arent trading stephen curry. Not for nothing, even Melo. Stephen's younger and cheaper. Plus, no one is trading for Melo without a guarantee he's not going to walk. And until he signs an extension, there's no guarantee.... But once he signs the extension, he's practically priced out of any good trades. So thre's no winning a Melo trade. Think about this, a "steal" in a Melo trade is considered Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Mozgov. If that's the equivalent of what we get back for Melo, im just going to become a wizards fan, because that's about as depressing as it gets
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby big_j_NY » November 6, 2013, 9:18 pm

spree#8 wrote:Again: 1) if you have success on the court, a star player in his prime and are a big market, you can have success in free agency in 2015. If you tank 2014-2015, the biggest free agent won't come to NY. You have to show your ability to put a quality team on the floor or even the most attractive town is just another town for an NBA star. That is the lesson anyone should've learned from 2010. NY alone is not enough to draw anyone.
2) If you want to start a rebuild through the draft, you can't have future first round picks (in this case the 2014 and 2016 one) not at your disposal. You can't chose to lose, while you owe other teams picks. And you can't trade picks while you are bad (that is the mistake Isiah made). You can't bet on just one draft. A real rebuild through the draft is not possible in NY till 2017.

So there is no reason to start a rebuild now. Especially not with just four games played.. Trade market and coach are the first two things to explore to improve if the current team and Woody don't turn it around quickly.


:clap: :clap:

H20Knick wrote:The warriors arent trading stephen curry. Not for nothing, even Melo. Stephen's younger and cheaper. Plus, no one is trading for Melo without a guarantee he's not going to walk. And until he signs an extension, there's no guarantee.... But once he signs the extension, he's practically priced out of any good trades. So thre's no winning a Melo trade. Think about this, a "steal" in a Melo trade is considered Gallo, Chandler, Felton, and Mozgov. If that's the equivalent of what we get back for Melo, im just going to become a wizards fan, because that's about as depressing as it gets
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby JoeD » November 6, 2013, 9:23 pm

spree#8 wrote:Again: 1) if you have success on the court, a star player in his prime and are a big market, you can have success in free agency in 2015. If you tank 2014-2015, the biggest free agent won't come to NY. You have to show your ability to put a quality team on the floor or even the most attractive town is just another town for an NBA star. That is the lesson anyone should've learned from 2010. NY alone is not enough to draw anyone.
2) If you want to start a rebuild through the draft, you can't have future first round picks (in this case the 2014 and 2016 one) not at your disposal. You can't chose to lose, while you owe other teams picks. And you can't trade picks while you are bad (that is the mistake Isiah made). You can't bet on just one draft. A real rebuild through the draft is not possible in NY till 2017.

So there is no reason to start a rebuild now. Especially not with just four games played.. Trade market and coach are the first two things to explore to improve if the current team and Woody don't turn it around quickly.


Players have to want to play with Melo and according to some in the NBA circle say they want nothing to do with Melo. Melo isn't a team player and I think that is starting to make the rounds. He is unable to change his game didn't do it for MDA and I'm sure Karl want him to change his game but that got lost. Now he comes out and says he doesn't know when to pass and shoot. Who would want to play with a player like that? Right now he is jacking up shots at a ridiculous rate and making 37% of them and I'm starting to think this guy doesn't get it. If I'm thinking like that imagine what other NBA players are thinking about him.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby spree#8 » November 6, 2013, 9:29 pm

JoeD wrote:Players have to want to play with Melo and according to some in the NBA circle say they want nothing to do with Melo. Melo isn't a team player and I think that is starting to make the rounds. He is unable to change his game didn't do it for MDA and I'm sure Karl want him to change his game but that got lost. Now he comes out and says he doesn't know when to pass and shoot. Who would want to play with a player like that? Right now he is jacking up shots at a ridiculous rate and making 37% of them and I'm starting to think this guy doesn't get it. If I'm thinking like that imagine what other NBA players are thinking about him.


Doesn't matter right now. He is our franchise player for the foreseeable future. If no wants to join him in 2015, you can start to think trade Melo in 2015-2016 and tank from 2016-2017 on as I said before. Until then it is about to make it work. We just have to hope that Mills doesn't fuck up the future ala Isiah.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby StevoStarks » November 6, 2013, 9:30 pm

JoeD wrote:Players have to want to play with Melo and according to some in the NBA circle say they want nothing to do with Melo. Melo isn't a team player and I think that is starting to make the rounds. He is unable to change his game didn't do it for MDA and I'm sure Karl want him to change his game but that got lost. Now he comes out and says he doesn't know when to pass and shoot. Who would want to play with a player like that? Right now he is jacking up shots at a ridiculous rate and making 37% of them and I'm starting to think this guy doesn't get it. If I'm thinking like that imagine what other NBA players are thinking about him.


I just want to say that I get where you, and all other Melo detractors are coming from. I see the argument against a player like him. In my mind I always compare him to Kobe, minus the ridiculous competitive level that Kobe plays at night in, night out.

I still think we need him to win a chip, but, surrounding him with the absolute perfect cast is VITAL to success. And if it's not done down to the last guy in the rotation, then I feel it's not going to work. And it's no secret that management has failed on that level. And going out and getting Bargs, to me, was the worst idea ever. And I'm not talking about what we gave up. Strictly from a chemistry standpoint.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby big_j_NY » November 6, 2013, 9:37 pm

JoeD wrote:Players have to want to play with Melo and according to some in the NBA circle say they want nothing to do with Melo. Melo isn't a team player and I think that is starting to make the rounds. He is unable to change his game didn't do it for MDA and I'm sure Karl want him to change his game but that got lost. Now he comes out and says he doesn't know when to pass and shoot. Who would want to play with a player like that? Right now he is jacking up shots at a ridiculous rate and making 37% of them and I'm starting to think this guy doesn't get it. If I'm thinking like that imagine what other NBA players are thinking about him.


Sir, that is what YOU THINK....................there is no report or even a small blurb in the NBA beat writer rumor mill that says no one wants to play with Melo.

All of you guys can have these fucking fantasies of have a Knicks championship squad that is about 5 players instead of 1 or 2 stars with complementary pieces is great, but in the last fucking years..........you still need at least one go-to STAR SCORER to be one of the foundations of a title squad. Even the patient-minded old folks that were around during the Knicks 2 title runs during the 70s wouldn't fucking think that letting Melo walk for nothing (worst case scenario) or trading Melo for above average starters (only best case scenario) would net us a title, considering Carmelo Anthony is the Knicks ONLY LEGITIMATE SUPERSTAR PLAYER SINCE PATRICK EWING WAS TRADED.

Here's how it is going to go regardless if we find success or not in terms of how the Knicks can acquire better players for a title run.

1) Keep Melo to attract a star player, like how the Celtics did with Pierce to net KG and Ray Allen and like how the Heat did with D-Wade to net Bosh and Lebron.
2) Actually start winning so we can still attract a star player to come to NY, Melo or no Melo. And in order for this Knicks team to even be competitive, we still fucking need Carmelo.

Basically the end result, YOU NEED TO KEEP MELO DO ANY FUCKING REBUILD WITH CHAMPIONSHIP ASPIRATIONS.

It's great that you guys enjoyed the tanking storm that Walsh attempted in the seasons of 2008-2009 and 2009-2010, but the end result didn't net us any fucking star talent outside of Carmelo Anthony. And that shit wasn't entertaining for any rational basketball fan PERIOD..........tanking is not fucking entertaining.

You want THE BEST REBUILD.........hold on to the best fucking player you have and use him as the center piece. Discarding your star player just so we can rebuild from shit again is always a 50/50 chance and NEVER A SURE BET, Chicago and Indiana are the lucky ones..........Atlanta, Portland, and Charlotte on the other hand didn't fare well.

That being said, whoever suggested to Dolan to "demote" Grunwald from his GM position and replace him with Steve Mills probably looks like a genius right now..........since the construction of this roster is mostly Grunwald's fault. Trading 2 useless players for a soft-ass player was probably not the best decision to make AFTER you got knocked out of the playoffs due to your softness as a roster, and you're kinda seeing the short-term results of that decision right now.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby THAFANATIK » November 6, 2013, 9:51 pm

Hmmmmm...... :hmm: ....interesting. Like I said last season, many of you will jump on the trade Melo bandwagon. I mentioned this early, and I still believe in it!!!!! Trade him NOW! Get as many pieces/draft picks as possible for him. We need to increase our 2014 draft stock. Deep, deep, deep draft!!!!!


Melo for John Wall and draft picks.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby H20Knick » November 6, 2013, 9:57 pm

I'd also like to say, that if we trade melo, no superstar free agent will ever want to play here again.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby big_j_NY » November 6, 2013, 10:00 pm

H20Knick wrote:I'd also like to say, that if we trade melo, no superstar free agent will ever want to play here again.


I said that 2 years ago when we were struggling under the Pringles mustache fellow, and some people still don't want to fucking reach this truth.

And trust me, no Knicks fans want to go through a lengthy rebuild with no promise of a future star player in return (draft or free agency)
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby cragganmor » November 6, 2013, 10:03 pm

i think any good gm always assesses the trade value of every player on the roster.

i just don't see melo being traded as likely, unless another team is urgent to get a star player in their prime and risk him walking at end of season. cannot envision a team giving us the pieces to reload on the fly; more likely scenario is to fire sale everyone and tear it down to bare metal, get back a few competent vets, the cap flexibility and some draft picks. in either event, it will not happen right away, much too early to call it a season and start rebuilding.

there are rumors that kyrie irving (a west orange guy and grew up a knick fan) wanted to play for us, but that will take 2 more yrs for him to hit free agency.

this team is only built for 2 more years after that, all of our big contracts come off the books. it'll be here sooner than you think, so i wouldn't panic.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby noypi » November 6, 2013, 10:47 pm

I have an idea. Why don't we let Amar'e, Bargs and Tyson's contracts expire/explore trade and try to sign legitimate superstars to help Melo. Or we could try trade some of our young assets like Shump and/or THJ For a legit allstar to help melo. If all else fails, blow up the team.

This thread is ridiculous.
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Re: Trade Melo and Rebuild Ideas

Postby big_j_NY » November 6, 2013, 10:51 pm

cragganmor wrote:i
i just don't see melo being traded as likely, unless another team is urgent to get a star player in their prime and risk him walking at end of season. cannot envision a team giving us the pieces to reload on the fly; more likely scenario is to fire sale everyone and tear it down to bare metal, get back a few competent vets, the cap flexibility and some draft picks. in either event, it will not happen right away, much too early to call it a season and start rebuilding.


I don't see any under-capped team with lottery picks willing to do that this season, considering the top 5 draft prospects in this upcoming draft. Andrew Wiggins is the 2nd coming of Lebron James, and why would a team trade for our own Carmelo Anthony...........when this draft also features the 2nd coming of Carmelo Anthony in the form of Jabari Parker. Then let us also throw in a guy like Marcus Smart, who could have been the #1 pick in the 2013 draft due to his potential star-talent from the PG position.

So yeah, even if you crazy "let's fucking trade Melo" people even tried.........nobody is gonna bite EVEN when Melo is at his highest value.
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