[Merged] Knicks trade for Emmanuel Mudiay (details inside)

[taowave]

I think Perry was trying to unload Noah in the Orlando deal..

I get the Mudiay is younger and on a better contract,but Perry was looking for a PG to make KP's life easier...

The optimists view Frank and Mudiay as positionless players who can play the 1.,2 or the 3..

The realist sees them as guys who arent good enough(yet??) to be quality point guards

And the truth is,if management really was high on Frank,we wouldnt be looking at PG's,(though the Mudiay trade is a good bet)

WHG wasn't part of the deal for Mudiay.

The price dropped drastically for Payton all of a sudden. There was interest from Perry to get a player he drafted but Orlando asked for more than a 2nd rounder from us from what i read. We then moved on Mudiay who is younger and has a longer contract as well. The Magic pressed the panic button sending Payton to Phoenix (also their 2nd round pick is more interesting than ours).

As for Doug, he isn't "nothing" but he wasn't doing anything for us for a long while. I also liked him as he provided a skillset that nobody else had here and I still cant understand what happened for him to disappear like that, but the truth is he wasn't playing anymore.

[Don Che]

Idt any team at any time...ever was willing to look at Noah's contract

I do agree with the frank assessment but he did play off the ball with success last year...we are just trying to acquire talent and seeing what works or not.

We have a lot of time left in the year....so if u guys want a high pick...Ur gonna have to stop jumping off ledges with every loss. This all going according to plan. Only bad thing is the KP injury

[dcapodic]

I know people like to put a positive spin on things, try to remain optimistic but all this speculation about how things didn't work with Orlando and all of a sudden the market dropped off for Payton...if you are gonna play the speculation game, you can take it to the next level. Since we gave up WHG for 2 second rounders, we could have just flipped 1 for Payton or even if we had to, flipped them both for Payton and essentially traded WHG for Payton. I feel more people would have been on board with that from a talent perspective.

Bottom line, if they really wanted Payton they should have gotten him especially given what he wound p going for, a second round pick which we are flush with. I like the Mudiay gamble but if you are gonna be fair, if they wanted Payton they failed, bottom line and Mudiay is just a throw of a dart hoping to hit a bullseye.

[shakespeare]

Orlando wanted Ntilikina.

[Don Che]

why are we crying about elfrid payton?

u cant go nuts over the players we inquire about...lord knows who we inquire about and if its true...just judge what actually happened. for every report thats real...40 are false.

[shakespeare]

Not sure who everyone believes Payton to be.

[dcapodic]

Orlando wanted Ntilikina.

They got a second round pick.

What a team wants and what you wind up giving them....two totally different things.

[dcapodic]

why are we crying about elfrid payton?

u cant go nuts over the players we inquire about...lord knows who we inquire about and if its true...just judge what actually happened. for every report thats real...40 are false.

I get what you are saying but that was not the point. The point was that Payton went for a second round pick. If you give me the choice of Payton for a second rounder or Mudiay for McDermott, I take Payton every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

For what it is worth, doesn't mean I think he is the best thing since sliced bread, just rather him that Mudiay, especially considering the trade.

[taowave]

Don,my point was we have 2 glaring needs.A real PG and a real 3.Perry appeared to want Payton,who for better or worse is s pure PG. He goes for a second rounder.

We wind up with Mudiay,and half the guys here think he's a 2 or a 3.. Square peg on a round hole...at a cheap price..

It appears to me,we are having open tryouts,throwing shit against the wall hoping something sticks..

[shakespeare]

New called Orlando to inquire about Payton.
Orlando wanted Ntilikina and second rounder.
New York refused.
End phone call.

Now, Dcap, tell me how you’d get Payton for a 2nd rounder?

[taowave]

Shakes,he went for a second rounder..

Obviously, someone negotiated poorly

They can ask whatever they want

[NewlyKnicked]

Phoenix 2nd rounder is better than ours so we'd have to give more to up their offer

EDIT: Phoenix sent the 2018 second round draft pick from Memphis, Charlotte or Miami (second most favorable) which should be worse than the Chicago 2nd rounder actually. My bad I thought the Suns sent their own 2nd rounder

FYI, the Suns' 2nd round pick was sent to Memphis with protection for selections 31-55. If this pick falls within its protected range, Phoenix's obligation to Memphis will be extinguished, so they will prolly keep it but they may not be able to trade this pick. Not sure...

[dcapodic]

Now, Dcap, tell me how you’d get Payton for a 2nd rounder?

As tao and NewlyKnicked pointed out, he was traded for a second round pick. you are asking how this could be done when the example is right in front of you so I am not sure what to say.

[nazrmohamed]

Now, Dcap, tell me how you’d get Payton for a 2nd rounder?

Shakes I get what you're saying and this time I guess that's what went down but e dirty single year I make trade scenarios and think we could get players for X price. Then period say Naz you gotta be crazy to think that he could be had for such a low price and then low and behold some team comes outta nowhere and give the same shitty asset as I originally described.

I simply cannot believe that every team says that to trade an asset to NY the price is 10units but for everyone else we'll accept 5 unites we're building this culture of overpaying, which we definitely do.

But my point is teams do what we consider impossible every year and they pay less to get it. At some point we gotta win scenarios. That in and of itself is the culture that must be rebuilt. Before we even get to what's on the field.

[taowave]

I hear you Naz... Payton going for a second rounder is a kick in the nuts. Seems we are always a day late and dollar short...

My guess is Orlando overplayed their hand,asked for too much,Perry countered and Mudiay fell into our lap.Thrn Orlando pukes up Payton,only as Orlando could..

Maddening

[thewatcher]

I wouldve taken Mudiay AND Payton. If Peyton didn't look great, cut him loose this summer. Emmanuel is going to be a very good player, but not sure at PG.

[taowave]

Totally agree with taking both.Its like shopping at Costco and getting a red light special..

Unfortunately,I don't think Perry agrees with you..Don't you think before Orlando panicked,they called Perry and tried to get some value?

I wouldve taken Mudiay AND Payton. If Peyton didn't look great, cut him loose this summer. Emmanuel is going to be a very good player, but not sure at PG.

[cragganmor]

Orlando traded away Dipo to get Serge, now he's gone so they gave up an mvp candidate for zilch. Wouldn't call them a crack outfit. As noted, they got desperate when plan A went south.

[dcapodic]

I wouldve taken Mudiay AND Payton. If Peyton didn't look great, cut him loose this summer. Emmanuel is going to be a very good player, but not sure at PG.

I wouldve taken Mudiay AND Payton.

Now you are talking watcher I SO agree. This is what they are trying to do AND need to do, just get young talent in here and let it work itself out. It's like we keep talking about the perfect scenarios for getting players (he has to be young, huge upside, no downside, in his rookie contract, etc.). Just get talent in here and things have a way of playing themselves out into workable situations.

Again, it is not like Payton is some be all and end all, that is not what I, nor I think anyone else, is saying. But he is a more established player that Mudiay, Frank or even Burke and he is still young. Also, he is a point guard, not all of these questions about what his talents are or where he fits in. There are downsides with his contract situation, I get that. But, even if it would have taken more than what he went for to another team to get him, like let's say the 2 second rounders we gave up for WHG, I would have no issues with the scenario that we essentially traded WHG for Payton. Actually, I would have preferred that to 2 random second rounders.

[taowave]

Orlando is the absolute worst when it comes to these kind of moves..they traded away lots of talent to get Terrance Ross and a second rounder..And we couldnt fleece even them

Orlando traded away Dipo to get Serge, now he's gone so they gave up an mvp candidate for zilch. Wouldn't call them a crack outfit. As noted, they got desperate when plan A went south.