If No Love Celtics open to trading Rondo?

[nazrmohamed]

Celtics Could Trade Rondo, Green If They Fail To Acquire Love
Jun 20, 2014 12:15 AM EDT


If they are unable to acquire Kevin Love, Boston Celtics are reportedly planning a longer and more methodical rebuilding process that likely would see Rajon Rondo get traded.

The Celtics have a taker for Jeff Green if they decide to move him, according to a source.

The Celtics are not giving up in their discussions with the Minnesota Timberwolves but have thus far been rebuffed in talks. Boston has offered the Nos. 6 and 17 picks in this year’s draft, Kelly Olynyk and one of their own future No. 1 picks for Love, according to a source.

Love has reportedly told the Timberwolves' front office that he will opt out of his contract and leave next offseason if he is not traded beforehand.

This is good to keep our eyes on. First Melo will opt out but if we could somehow trade for Rondo with remaining pieces it could show him we mean business in terms of improving. Cap space is important for 2015 but there are definitely players I lose cap space for and Rondo is that player. Plus the Celtics have held out on Rondo for so long, I don't know if the price will be as high.

Wonder if this could get it done
Change in Team Outlook: +2.9 ppg, -5.2 rpg, and +7.9 apg.

Incoming Players
Rajon Rondo
28 year old , 6-1, 186 lb PG from Kentucky
11.7 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 9.8 apg in 33.3 minutes
Jeff Green
27 year old , 6-9, 235 lb F from Georgetown
16.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.7 apg in 34.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
Tyson Chandler
31 year old , 7-1, 240 lb C from Dominguez High School (California)
8.7 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.2 minutes in 2013-2014
Iman Shumpert
23 year old , 6-5, 220 lb G from Georgia Tech
6.7 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.7 apg in 26.5 minutes in 2013-2014
Tim Hardaway Jr.
22 year old , 6-6, 205 lb SG from Michigan
10.2 ppg, 1.5 rpg, 0.8 apg in 23.2 minutes in 2013-2014
Some future draft considerations

[thewatcher]

I don't want to rain on your thread but I don't see it happening. Just as Phil wouldn't trust an established coach like JVG or mrk Jax, I don't see him basically risking his Knick- legacy on a highly temperamental PG coming off ACL repair no matter how good he once was. I just don't see Rondo here, sorry guys, i know a lot of you want it and i understand why.

[DolanCurse2001]

Ainge would never ever trade Rondo here.

[Nononsense]

Wait a minute. Minny is turning down the 6th & 17th picks in this year's draft which is supposed to be the best and deepest draft in recent memory PLUS a future first rounder PLUS Olynyk??? If true, they're insane!!! They get three first rounders and a promising young talent in Olynyk all while shipping a disgruntled, soon-to-be free agent across the country to another conference. And meanwhile, rumors are swirling the Minny is actually considering giving up a first round draft pick, Love, Kevin Martin, and JJ Barea (to a team in the same conference) in exchange for Golden State's David Lee and Klay Thompson. Just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[nazrmohamed]

^^^^ not to me niether. Why on gods green earth would Minny be giving up a draft pick in a trade where they are also giving ip the best player. For David Lee and Klay Thomspon?

Back to Rondo. The Celtics and Nets just traded with each other last year so this no trades within the division rhetoric is just that. When two teams are on the same path or curve sure. The Celtics wanna suck and compile draft picks, I mean assuming they cant land Love and make the jump. I don't think Ainge cares what we do with Rondo. And as for Rondo himself yeah he got injured and only played 30 games, the year before 36. But thats because he was hurt from the end of that year through the beginning of this year. Ever since being back he's averaged 11.2&9.8 but he also played less minutes as a precaution 33 as compared to his usual 37. And his per 36 min averages were in line with all of his best years.

In other words Rondo is more than just fine, he's great. He's that player that out of all the times you could deny a player its now, and then you watch them go nuts someplace else. He's young, he's a strong player, no laziness and no reason to believe he hasn't worked on his body. As for his attitude, are we really gonna talk about attitudes and Phil Jackson? The same guy who says conflict is a good thing? Rondos attitude doesn't stem from the fact that he's lazy, or a knuckle head. It originated from this idea that anybody who has the luxury of playing with the big three should simply be happy they are along for the ride and keep their mouth shut. And sure Rondo could've allowed himself to be the next Mario Chalmers and get bitched out each game even for mistakes that the big three make. Ive seen plays where Lebron throws an errant pass to Chalmers and then berates him and guess what? Chalmers ain't the star so its his job to just sit there and take it. Ive also seen Lebron later be like " sorry man that was my fault" so.. But I think Rondos rep for being feisty arose from him not wanting to be pushed around and feeling like " sure you guys are talented but Im still the point guard and that means I get to run the show". And it really culminated when Ray Allen started complaining about touches. Everyone made it like Rondo wanted to steal Allen's shine. We're talking about a kid taking like 8 shots and dishing about 12 assists. I don't think he was trying to steal anything but the win. He's a tough player, yeah every now and then he pushed back too much but its always in the right ways. Being a selfish star to Rondo is unselfish by nature, he only knows unselfish basketball from his great facilitating to his great defense. I think he'll be fine. Especially in any team run by the best phsycologist in sports, Phil Jackson

[H20Knick]

You really think the Celtics would be willing to give up Jeff Green AND rondo? They're the best two players in the trade. What purpose to the Celtics have for tyson chandler?

[nazrmohamed]

You really think the Celtics would be willing to give up Jeff Green AND rondo? They're the best two players in the trade. What purpose to the Celtics have for tyson chandler?

I had to throw the trade together quick. We could come up with different ideas but still I want Rondo. Always have. Maybe you git a better one. Tyson was used because hes a large expiring, thats it. Coulda been Amare or Bargnani for all I care.

[H20Knick]

I had to throw the trade together quick. We could come up with different ideas but still I want Rondo. Always have. Maybe you git a better one. Tyson was used because hes a large expiring, thats it. Coulda been Amare or Bargnani for all I care.

Willing to give up the remaining 2015 cap space to do it?

[Mr. Glass]

I hate the Celtics. The only way I'm happy with ANY trade with them is if we clearly come out on top. Ainge is not that dude though. We had to eat shit when we got STAT (even though he wasn't traded). Boston has to eat a little with Rondo. If we can buy low then, "do it." Otherwise, the reasons that Watcher stated are clear enough signs to walk away.

[nazrmohamed]

H2O why is it that we gotta eat up all of our cap space if we use any of it? We act like in order to sign anyone in 2015 we gotta have a full 45 mil in space. I don't get that.

Bargnani- 11 mil
Amare- 23 mil
Tyson- 14 mil
Total- 48mil

48-x= ?

Everytime anyone has a conversation is like we can't talk if we wanna spend even .35 cents of 2015 money. And what's crazy is people won't even make moves for players they would take if they were free agents in 2015 anyway. All 2015 is is a chance to bid on free agents that year. There are good players not available as free agents in 2015 folks. So to answer your question the answer is yes I guess. I would take Rondo now instead of waiting for 2015. There you have it.

[H20Knick]

well, rondo AND green is a lot of money on the books. Rondo alone and you can prettty much do 2015 as planned originally. Not so if you add green to the mix

[nazrmohamed]

Understood but the way Im feeling is this. In the trade Shumpert and Hardaway contracts offset Greens and another thing Ive been open to is contracts that expire after 2015. Let's just assume Melo stays. Ok he's your max player, Rondo is exuberant to a max player in my eyes so really you just got two maxs. Yeah you can't go crazy and add a third but many of us have already started to rebel against the three max model. Maybe it's best to just build depth from that point on. So maybe all you're left with after is an additional 10 mil let's say. You could still get a darn decent player at that price and perhaps two if you wanna get even more frugal. Last but not least since Green and what's left of our original pre-rondo roster expire the following summer, trades for another good player is possible. Green would have even more value as a producing expiring. You just wouldn't have that huge bang in one summer.

And also remember, I said it didn't matter to me which expiring we use. Bargnani is smaller, maybe instead of Green we take back Sullinger. Id actually like that even more.

[n8 the gr8]

I'm with you nazr in that I think it's just due diligence for Jackson to pick up the phone and discuss Rondo with Ainge. Also this is a good post:

In other words Rondo is more than just fine, he's great. He's that player that out of all the times you could deny a player its now, and then you watch them go nuts someplace else. He's young, he's a strong player, no laziness and no reason to believe he hasn't worked on his body. As for his attitude, are we really gonna talk about attitudes and Phil Jackson? The same guy who says conflict is a good thing? Rondos attitude doesn't stem from the fact that he's lazy, or a knuckle head. It originated from this idea that anybody who has the luxury of playing with the big three should simply be happy they are along for the ride and keep their mouth shut. And sure Rondo could've allowed himself to be the next Mario Chalmers and get bitched out each game even for mistakes that the big three make. Ive seen plays where Lebron throws an errant pass to Chalmers and then berates him and guess what? Chalmers ain't the star so its his job to just sit there and take it. Ive also seen Lebron later be like " sorry man that was my fault" so.. But I think Rondos rep for being feisty arose from him not wanting to be pushed around and feeling like " sure you guys are talented but Im still the point guard and that means I get to run the show". And it really culminated when Ray Allen started complaining about touches. Everyone made it like Rondo wanted to steal Allen's shine. We're talking about a kid taking like 8 shots and dishing about 12 assists. I don't think he was trying to steal anything but the win. He's a tough player, yeah every now and then he pushed back too much but its always in the right ways. Being a selfish star to Rondo is unselfish by nature, he only knows unselfish basketball from his great facilitating to his great defense. I think he'll be fine. Especially in any team run by the best phsycologist in sports, Phil Jackson

Rondo's disposition has been pretty manufactured by the media IMO. Totally agree with what you're saying. Plus on the Knicks he would be 1B to Melo, who knows he needs help. It wouldn't be a competitive relationship.

The timing of dealing with the Celtics in this scenario is going to be important. I don't think the Celtics are going to end up dealing Rondo on draft day, and them landing love seems like sort of a longshot to me. I want to see the Knicks try to buy a pick, and try to make some low-key moves trying to get something, even if it's second rounders, without giving up any serious assets. Wait a couple days and Rondo's value will drop. If Phil doesn't get Rondo then it's not the end of the world, but I'm going to be kind of pissed if he doesn't at least inquire. I hope it's irrational but I sort of have this fear that Phil is going to get here and expect everyone to call him and serve him great trades on a platter because he's Phil Jackson. He's a gm he can't be above working the phones and bartering. My point is if nothing comes of it, it's not necessarily a problem but if Jackson isn't inquiring about Rondo and potential trades in general then it'll be a problem.

If you're adding a guy of Rondo's caliber that's a star to put next to Melo and the goal for 2015 goes from saving as much as possible to saving enough for 1 max contract. Put Felton in that deal and switch Chandler for Bargs and I'd like it better. Rondo would make Chandler look like a baller again and shedding a little more 2015 salary in Felton would be great.

The Knicks are in ok shape if they stand pat and just go ahead with a ton of caproom and a first rounder in 15, but it's just due diligence to see if you can get another star.

Unrelated but the GS-Knicks trade and the rumor in this thread about Love gave me an idea. How about a GS- NY- Minny trade involving Chandler to GS, Lee and Thompson to Minny and Love to NY (could work it out better) and then Amare or Bargs+ a bit for Rondo. In that scenario you could take on some bad contracts because you don't need cap space, you've already got your bird rights on the big 3 and you can use all the expiring contracts.

[H20Knick]

Rondo's pretty expensive for a triangle pg that can't reliably hit a 3 point shot, dont you think? You do realize that Phil is here and that changes everything, for better or for worse

[n8 the gr8]

But you don't pay Rondo because of his playmaking in a halfcourt set. You pay him because of his defense and the way he pushes the ball. In a triangle if Melo or whoever gets double-teamed and Rondo is left open you've got to trust that he'll make the right play. He could drive to the basket and kick it to whoever's man comes to help. Rondo is good enough offensively that I don't think he necessarily has to hit 3s to be effective.

[nazrmohamed]

Actually Rondo is probably qualified in every aspect of the triangle except for the three point shot. What I do know about Phil though is he is very qualified in shaping his triangle around the great players he has in it. I also know that Derrick Fisher has been in the nba long enough to understand that the game has evolved somewhat. Do I believe any point guard who is ball dominant and drives in order to set up his teammates is suitable for the role? No I do not, but in this particular point guard I believe.

[H20Knick]

I just dont get why you'd build a triangle roster with 13+ mil tied up in the point guard. Under pretty much any other coach/scheme, i'd be all in, but we know the team needs a 1B scorer and those cost money. We know we don't want to be like the heat and have 3 guys making big bucks and trying to fill the rest of the team with past-their-prime guys or young players that never panned out. If you know you don't really NEED a top level pg, why not just spend 6 mil on a good defender who can hit an open shot and use the savings elsewhere in the roster?

[Koopa Troopa]

Actually Rondo is qualified for everything except being able to stay on the court. I'll pass on these injury prone guys